Sales is dead and salespeople killed it — Kevin "KD" Dorsey on AI and what's next

I've yet to talk to another revenue leader, and this will sound ridiculous, that is even halfway to where I am on this stuff both in terms of what it can do now but also understanding where this is going. I have fully convinced myself that I am replaceable in the next four to five years. So if anyone is going to replace me, it's going to be me. That's the mindset that I'm taking.

Welcome back to another episode of the Revenue Reimagine podcast. We are stoked to have the one and only—I'm going to use the real name for the first time ever—Kevin KD Dorsey, SVP of Sales and Partnerships at Bench Accounting, host of the Live Better Sell Better podcast, a friend, mentor, and probably the go-to expert I think of when I think of all things leadership. KD, welcome to the show, man.

All right, I'm excited. You know, just ready. It's been a minute since I've had you on. We get to talk through it. So let's rock, y'all. Let's do this.

I love it. Thanks for being here.

Yeah, yeah. So let's jump right into it. We're all busy. We're all getting ready to do a couple trips here. So we're about to reimagine revenue for you. You can't be in sales anymore. What's one other go-to-market revenue function or go-to-market function that you would take besides revenue or besides sales?

Marketing. Hesitate? Didn't even flinch on that. So marketing is a lot. Any particular part of marketing? Like, would you do content? Would you do demand? Would you do performance? Like, where would you go in marketing?

We just all of it. You're the CMO.

No, I would go that route. Like, a lot of people don't know this in my background. If I weren't in sales, I'd be in marketing. In fact, a lot of my early learnings were from marketing, working with one of the co-founders at Human and Stagnation, Andy Mackintosh, just a worldclass marketing leader. The first conferences I went to were marketing conferences. The books I was reading were marketing books. And I think it helped shaped who I am as a revenue leader. So no, marketing for sure. Because again, if you think about creating demand and closing demand, okay, marketing's creating the demand, sales is the closing of that demand, but it's psychology at its core, right? It's just that at marketing you're attracting the masses, and in sales you're selling to a person or individual.

Yeah, marketing for sure would be the other revenue option.

Awesome. Go ahead, Adam. What are you going to ask?

I have so much to ask. So you said you started in marketing, and it was the marketing conferences. So my next question is, then, why sales? Why did you gravitate towards this side versus having all that great training and being around, and I'm going to use your words—I think you said worldclass marketer, which is not words I hear a lot? There's very few people I've heard described as like, "Holy crap, worldclass sales leader. Worldclass marketer." What made you straight to this side versus straight to that side?

So I mean, really, I just think about barrier to entry, right? You don't need a degree in sales to get a job in sales. And so at the time, right, I've shared this publicly—I'm a college dropout now. I sold. I worked all the way through college and all those things. But like, if I was when I was leaving college, I couldn't go get an entry-level marketing position because I didn't have a degree in it, right? So I was in sales because of the barrier to entry. But then when I started working with Andy, that's where the real learning happened. Because, funny enough, I never really had a strong sales leader for myself, right? It's been a lot of self-taught, self-learning. So working with Andy and Sean Kelly there as well—he was a marketer. He followed all the OGs, the Dan Kennedy, the Evan Pagans, the Ryan Dices, right? Like, my bottom shelf down here is full of those guys, right? The Traffic and Conversion Summits are what I was going to. So that was really it. I was just a sales guy who was learning a lot about marketing.

But it was just the barrier to entry. Anyone, this is why I got into sales. Contrary to what most people believe, I believe sales is the most secure job you can have because if you're good at it, you'll always find a job no matter what. And that was what pulled me in. I was like, look, even if I'm only okay at this, there's always sales jobs, no matter what. Even if it's commission-only, knocking on doors, I will never go without a job for the rest of my life, right? And so that's what got me into sales.

But then yeah, I spent so much time on the marketing side of it to really hone the psychology, the attraction, the funnels, right? I was doing cadences long before people in sales were doing cadences. Long before, actually, well, if I could find it, I've got one of my old sales binders. Ah, shoot. Like, I have one of my old sales binders where my sales cadence was fully mapped out page by page. Email one this day, voicemail this day—like, all of it. And that came from marketing. Marketing has been doing cadences for decades. It just took sales too long to catch up.

So that was kind of my transition. But now that sales has cadences—and we could come back to this—they're being overused. And I would argue that they're ruining sales.

They've ruined it already. Past tense. It is already in the present tense. Because what they did is they became marketers.

Yep, one to many. We literally got away from the very thing that made us sales people, which was the one to one. A lot of the people coming up in sales now don't even realize: Outreach, Sales Loft, all these tools. They didn't even have automation for the first four or five years. That wasn't what it was built to do. They were not built to automate the emails. They were built to automate the sales process, right? Day one, day four, day seventeen—that all used to have to be in our heads or on notepads or whatever else, right? Like, that's what it's supposed to do. And then it turned into outbound marketing. And then we wonder why it doesn't work. And it has. It has ruined sales because, unfortunately, there's no coming back from it. There's no like, okay, well, now I want to do one to one. It's too late because that inbox is so destroyed it doesn't even matter anymore, right? So then it proves people's points: well, no, I did personalized emails and it didn't work. So then they stop doing it. They go back to blasting. And here we are.

So, kids going into school, what part of education should they be going towards now to get the next jobs in revenue? Like, forget about sales. Like, what type of education? Where should they be looking? What should their track be to become revenue leaders, revenue experts, etc.?

So if I could combine it, it would be a combination of psychology, business, and AI. So I firmly believe AI is going to change so much of what we do. And it's going to be the people learning it that can actually apply it. One of the flaws I've seen in SaaS for the longest time is so many products are built by product people. They're not actually built by the users. If more VPs and CROs knew how to program, there'd be way better tools out there, way better, because we actually know how we use it and what we'd look for.

So if I were coming up in the revenue game right now, I'd be kind. Always a base of psychology, no matter what. How people make decisions, how people buy, what triggers the emotions, all of that—that's your foundation. Doesn't matter what you're doing. Building products, building teams, building companies—psychology. Understand the foundations of business, right? You don't need to go to business school, but understand the foundations of business—how finances work, everything there. But then learn this. This is what I'm spending my time on even right now. Like, I'm in the game and I'm learning how to do no code, right? I'm learning everything I can around large language models and Pinecone and LangChain and all these tools to figure out, like, okay, this is what's coming. I have literally mapped out on one page what it is I do as a leader. I've mapped it out, and I've already looked and, like, okay, get automated. Like, of this stuff that I do, what can I automate?

Yeah. So it's funny because, and I know you do some stuff with John Barros specifically around AI. We had him on—I don't know, five, six, seven episodes ago—and he was saying arguably the same thing: map out what you do and arguably work to replace yourself as much as you can with the repetitive tasks or the questions that you can ask over and over again. And then use yourself and the psychology for the things that you as the human are needed for.

I love it. I don't think there's enough emphasis on psychology. I think that we've started to hear a lot more about this, you know, on LinkedIn or from respected sales leaders. When you're working with, you know, either new sellers that are AEs or new BDRs, how do you get them to learn and understand the importance of psychology because it's not as simple as, hey, go read a psych book?

Well, so here's how I do it. I have an hour-and-a-half-long training module built into my onboarding that's called the Psychology of Sales and Influence, where it's breaking down Cialdini's work. It's breaking down Kahneman's work. It's breaking down biology. So like, it's built into my onboarding.

First of all, so that's first. And the second is when we are talking through scripting, we are almost always connecting it back to what psychological trigger is this based off of? Why are we doing this? Which one of the laws can we connect this back to? Which one of the methods can we connect this back to? So it's ingrained in a lot of what we are teaching as well. It's never just like, "Here's the script." It's like, "All right, here's the script. Now let's break down why we're using this tone from a psychological layer. Let's break down what a layered question is and how that applies to psychology. What a justifier is—and that's one of the laws from Cialdini around consistency." So it's weaved in through everything that I'm trying to do with my teams and companies I work with. But again, it's a full module. It's the second module people go through to set the foundation for how to sell.

Yeah, and it's interesting. Most people don't talk about psychology or the buyer because most people think only about their product, their feature, their functionality. When I talk to a lot of sales reps or even founders and leaders, you got to put yourself in the buyer's shoes. Like, what are they thinking about? What's the value that they're going to derive when your product or feature becomes in their everyday use? And I think there's a lot of companies or startup tech companies going through this PLG motion now, right? They're like, "Well, we can't get on top of funnel, so we're going to do this PLG motion." Talk a little bit about the challenges with that PLG motion versus a true enterprise-type sale, because a lot of enterprise tech is going towards a PLG motion.

Yeah, well, I think Jeb Blount said this so well in his book, *Fanatical Prospecting*. I've used it ever since, right? Where I try to take an "and" approach, not an "or" approach. I think it should be PLG and sales-led, right? PLG and enterprise, right? Because the challenge with PLG is you can't control who's coming in, so you lose control over the funnel. As much as we love to think our products are intuitive, there's a reason why T-shirts have tags that say "don't eat" it. We got to remember this. I keep telling that—don't eat the t-shirts, but don't use the iron in the bath, like, okay? So as intuitive as we think these products are, they're not. So what happens, again pulling back inside psychology, is people remember the first, they remember the last. So if I land into a product and I don't feel good immediately—like immediately I'm confused or immediately I'm not sure what to do—my impression of that product is now not positive, and I don't come back. Talk to any PLG company. The abandonment rate is massive, right? It's absolutely massive. People get in, they're like, "Um," and that guided tour doesn't do anything, right? So you lose control over it, but worse than losing control is you have people getting into a product and not having a great experience, and now they've labeled it that way.

Yeah, that's very hard to come back from, where it's like, "Oh no, yeah, I should... No, I tried, I tried. Revenue... Imagine it just... No, I just didn't work. It was confusing. They never paid for it, they never actually used it, but that was their experience."

That is a struggle. And then what a lot of them are running into is when you have PLG, generally speaking, you are targeting users, which is great, but the users are not the buyers. And so that gap still remains. Where now, say, all right, I got a bunch of whatever—SDRs are getting some data, but they're not buying. They're not buying. I mean, Scratchpad and Duly are the perfect examples of that. And listen, I'm not trash talking—I think they're both good products—but the whole motion was PLG and get the SDRs using it, and that's great until they have to connect it to Salesforce, and someone's like, "Nope, not going to do that." Man, I'm dude, I'm in one of their sales cycles right now, right? They're like, "Hey, KD, like, you got all these users. Like, are you gonna sign up?" I'm like, "For what?" I like, you know, I got hit up with a message like, "Hey, like, it's end of quarter. Like, what can we do to get this across the line?" I was like, "I literally don't know what you're talking about. There's nothing on my plan right now to get this across the line. My team uses it apparently. I've never been onboarded into it. I've never been trained on it. I've never personally used it. Way to go for PLG, right?" Because again, the whole point of PLG, and where, you know, people are getting it misconstrued, is you can really only do PLG if your product on its own can deliver the value someone's looking for, right? So like, if I go sign up for Canva right now, I'm gonna get some value out of it. I can very quickly figure out how to build a LinkedIn banner. Okay, I can get value right away. Miro, I can go in, I can build a Miro board and share that with other people. I can immediately get some value out of it. There's a lot of companies that... like, you can't get value from the product that quickly or that easily. What do you do with it? So that's my take on PLG.

I think you have to have a way for people to experience your product, right, in order to want to even raise their hand anymore, because we're also going to get to a stage here where building your own internal tools—back to AI—is going to be so easy. What's PLG doing, right? It's like, man, like, I need a tool that will tell me which deals are at risk because of XYZ factors. Build. And you've got autonomous agents that can build it off your own data. I don't even need to go PLG.

So let's double-click on that. So I, as you know, worked for a company that did revenue intelligence. I'm a big fan of some of the tools out there. You know, like Clari, and I think Outreach has some cool stuff. So does Sales Loft. We'll be agnostic here. But you just hit on something, right? You have these startups that are building these companies on "How do you identify deals at risk? How do you know what's your likelihood of closing this deal?" With the advent of LLMs, and arguably anyone being able to create their own LLM based on their own data, what does that mean for these startups that come into existence for the sole purpose of, "Well, KD, you know, is the deal going to sign this quarter because all your reps are using our product to tell you that their deals aren't going to close?"

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Like, and that's where if people just don't understand—I think what is happening—not coming, what's already happening, absolutely. A lot of those tools, right? Their value was information. Well, now information is accessible. So you're going to have to find another value prop, right? Which is, like, in my opinion, it's going to go from reactive to proactive. So as opposed to, "This deal is at risk," it's like, "Do these things to ensure it doesn't fall into that, right?" So starting to get to a proactive element. But I mean, I've quite literally already replicated myself. I have built my own LLM. I have it completely. You can ask it borderline any single question, and it'll answer. I've uploaded all of my trainings, all of my content, all of my recordings, everything in there—all my playbooks, it's there. Okay, so like, when it comes to internal data, similarly, it's like, because—and this is what, you know, leaders, I'm working on a little something on this too right now with Jake Dunlap, which will be exciting—where it's like, the questions that we ask, that is who I meant, not John Barros. My apologies. It's all good. Well, Barros and I have talked about this too, like, Barros is doing it. Yeah, gets it, more like. He and I have talked about this. He's doing some cool stuff too, where it's like, "I just want my questions answered." Yeah, right. Like right now, I want to know what happened to the 414 leads from September that did not get out of the SAL stage. I want to know how many touches did they get? Who touched them? What emails were they sent? Right now, I have to go to the different tools to find that. I want to be able to ask that and not ask my managers that. So if I ask my managers that, it's like, "Oh, let me go find out for you," right? They're going to then have to take time from closing business and driving revenue to answer your question that you could answer with a keystroke.

Yeah, so that's where I think this ends up, right? It's like, the data already existed. All of these tools all they've done is make it easy to see, manipulate, and interpret the data. But once you can connect something to your own data set, I don't need another dashboard. I just need my questions answered. That's what.

I need right, so back to what I said at the beginning. This is why I wish more revenue leaders, or whatever else—even marketers—knew how to build tools because we would build it differently than how a lot of these tools are built. Because we are users. How does a VP use Outreach, Sales Loft, Groove? It's very different than how, right? The thing I have sat on both of their companies' customer advisory boards, by the way, and I've made the same suggestions to both of them. And quite a few of the things that I asked for never came to fruition because they were from a VP's lens, a CEO's lens, not from a user's lens. I went to go and figure out, how can we automate some stuff? I'm like, that's not what I needed. That's not what I needed.

Yeah, it's funny. I originally was a coder in college and then I actually went into sales engineering. I think some of the best salespeople that I've known are sales engineers that can actually talk business, talk value, because they understand the bits and bytes behind it and they can generate that value on top of talking technical. Plus, if you're technical and you're sitting in a technical conversation, you don't necessarily need to say you're technical, but you can gather data from that sales call or that conversation that you would never know otherwise. I know many salespeople, oh, I'm not technical—go watch some YouTube videos. Go like, I've done model-driven development back in the day, probably five, six, seven years ago, building your own apps. You realize how much you actually could give a better product experience for people. So I love that. I love that feedback. It's a different lens.

I mean, even like when you and I are on sales calls—like we were on one today—you look at things differently because of that background that you have with product. I'm certainly not a product person, but like, KD, I get what you're saying. I've used so many products as a revenue leader where I'm like, this wasn't designed for me to use at all. Take my feedback.

When you talk about—so you struck a nerve with me with something you said. You already have your own LLM. You have, like, a we'll call it "KD in a box," if you will. How hard is that for people to create? Because I think a lot of people are going to want to do that, and I do truly believe—I won't even say that's the way of the future—we're here. It's just how quickly people are going to do it. Is that a 40-hour learning, a 10-hour learning? Like, what's involved for someone to be able to do this the right way and replicate themselves?

So it depends on how good you want it to be. So I, the level that the three of us would want it to be—okay, so there are two parts of it. There's the building of it and there's the prompting of it, right? So what it took me to learn it, it's probably about three months of like, you know, before hours, after hours of like, but I was learning how it worked, how all of it connected, and then I found tools that could speed it up. But I understood how it was doing things and how content had to be put into it to make it legible and readable and all those things. So then when I started to build it, there are tools—funny enough—that use AI to help you build your own AI things, right? So now, you know how to do it the right way. What's happening is people are trying it. They load it up into some of these tools. They load it up and they try to connect to ChatGPT, and they wonder why it doesn't go very well. There's a lot of training of it that you need to do.

That was about, you know, going—if I was not working nine jobs and everything else, I could probably learn in like two to three weeks, right? But it's you know, three months like, this is what I do for fun, right? I posted about this a while back. I've pulled back on LinkedIn posting because of this. Why? Because if I'm going to spend even 30 additional minutes in a day, I'm going to direct it here. What's that value proposition, right? Like, I'm going to spend 30 days on posting and commenting, or I'm going to spend 30 days on learning how to do AI and LLM? Like, you know, I'm blessed to be in a situation now where like, growth of reach doesn't matter to me. And also, funny enough, it comes full circle. Everyone wants to build brands so things become passive. Where I've built my brand so I can be sniper, right? I don't. If I want to generate revenue, I reach out to people directly. I don't make a post about it and say, hey, like, I'm going to reach out to 10 VPs and say, yo, I've got this thing. Do you want it, right?

So now the building of it, right? There's tools that can do it. But then it's the prompts that you really have to finetune because people write a prompt saying like, oh, like, how do I close this deal, all right? Well, no, right? Like, you have to feed it way more. And so that's where Jake and I have been spending a lot of time too is building those prompt libraries out and everything around it. So you know, it's you got to learn this.

I I'm just—I am shocked. Well, no, I'm not. I think that's—don't be shocked. Don't—I was going to say, I'm not about the amount of people that don't take time to learn this. I'm not shocked at all.

No, no, no. Like, I've yet to talk to another revenue leader, you know, and this will sound ridiculous, that is like even halfway to where I am on this stuff, both in terms of what it can do now, but also understanding where this is going. Like, I've, you know, fully convinced myself that I am replaceable in the next four to five years. So if anyone is going to replace me, it's going to be me. That's the mindset that I'm taking. And if it doesn't happen, then it doesn't happen. But I'm like, dude, I mapped it all out and I go, shoot, like, imagine leadership that actually catered to the individual learning preferences of the reps and didn't have emotional biases and actually did remember to check in and could recognize it—could listen to all of their calls and give them feedback on it and connect it to their goals and create customized comp plans that speak to the individual. Like, yep, it's unlimited.

There's two other things I want to say. Like, the prompt engineering is super interesting because it goes back to fundamentals of sales. Ask better questions, get better answers. Same thing on the prompt engineering. Like, you ask it crap questions, you're going to get crap answers. And so people that are trying to do this, they don't understand that they have to ask really good questions.

The second thing that I think you have above a lot of other people that go out to try to do this is you have good content to start with. Like, you've spent so much time. Like, if you talk about how much time you've spent to learn this, how much additional time have you spent building documents, building, writing content? You know, I knew one of your reps from one of your last companies, and like, he just said, like, KD knew how to do everything to a T. And so that's like years of experience that you've written down, putting in context that you're giving to the LLM.

Yeah, well, and you know, you said the magic—who was the rep, by the way?

Uh, Michael Lindo.

Yeah, hell yeah, all right. Good. He's a man. I hired him at one of my jobs just because he was over with you and Justin. Let's go. Let's go.

Um, so no, so the magic word there is context. A lot of people have content. They don't have context. And so that's where, with a lot of, you know, like, you know, I don't know, it's giving away secrets. People need to start recording things more, not writing them, because most playbooks are content with no context, whereas the 97 hours of recorded trainings that I have have context where it's like, okay, I'm explaining things as I go through this, right? It's what Jake and I are helping companies do is like, take their content and give it context to build these types of things out so it's actually real. So that's the key. You have to have context to make it work. And then pair that with good questions. That's the key. All these fake people writing fake frameworks to—uh, not give any context.

Oh, don't even. That's a very sore subject. Everyone with their frameworks and their cookie-cutter playbook for 199 dollars that you just buy this and you're suddenly going to be able to build a go-to-market team. Let's not go there. I think we all feel the same about this.

KD, uh, one of the big things that Revenue Reimagined is giving back to the community. Um, you've been graceful, grateful enough to give back to our community. What would you like to give to the community or a person in the community?

Yeah, so since we touched on it, I will make "The Psychology of Sales and Influence" available to your listeners. So I'll put a place to host that. It's about an hour and 15 minutes or so. I will find a way to host that you can send that out to people and they can watch it.

Wow, that's amazing. Thank you so much. So for those—like, we don't pre-plan.

These gifts—so the reaction you just got from me is real. That's pretty darn awesome. Adam needs it because Adam needs it. Listen, I'm not above saying, as good as I think I am, I'll be the first one to go through that and watch it. And any one of our listeners, whether you're a CRO founder, AE, or SDR, you're not smart if you don't take the time to take advantage of an offer like that. Because having gone through some of Katie's courses before, they're not things that are put together in five minutes to make a quick buck. This isn't like, "Hey, this might be good. I want to make $29.99." This is real effort that's going to help you close business. There we go. So that's my endorsement.

All right, as we wind it down, could we do some rapid fire? Hit me.

That's right. All right, 10 words or less for these answers. What song would you say best describes your revenue strategy?

Living on a Prayer. No, get good. Me, good one. I'm gonna say I'll go here. I'll say "99 Problems" by Jay-Z.

Oh, that's a good one. I like it. That's a good one. That's a really good one. If you had a crystal ball, what's one revenue trend or strategy that you predict will take center stage in the next 12 to 18 months, other than AI?

Customer-led growth. Customer-led growth. A little bit words last. So, yeah, what? Give us a little context on it.

Well, so we've been hinting at it a bit already. Okay, buyers want to talk to buyers. They don't want to talk to salespeople. Right? If you think about the evolution of sales, sales used to be about the "what"—you didn't know what was out there unless you talked to a salesperson, right? You literally didn't know what was out there. You didn't know what new products, new whatever. You had to talk to a salesperson.

Salesperson used to be about the "what." Well, as the information got out there, the "what" sales became about the "why." Okay, here's the what. We need like, why should I work with you? Right? Why should I use this tool, right? There was an education element to it. Well, now we've passed that bridge as well because all of that is out there also. Where it's getting to is the "how"—how do I actually use this tool to get the result that I want?

95% of salespeople do not actually use the thing that they sell. It's one of the greatest conflicts of interest there actually are. They don't use it, and because they don't use it, they cannot speak like a user. So I've dabbled in this already where I've had customers on the demos, customers taking prospect calls, because they are a user, okay?

So let's go full circle here. Let's say, you know, Outreach decides to bring me into the fold. How many more meetings do you think they could book if the call to action was, "Hey, do you want to speak to Kevin Dorsey, who's built four teams over 150 people using this product, and he'll show you his sequences, how he connects it, and how he generates pipeline?" How many more meetings do you think they could set if that was the call to action and I'm the one on Monday through Friday? I'm the one walking them through that demo in the product and how I use it with no incentive if you close or not?

I dabbled on this at Patient Pop. I'm already starting to build that process here at Bench. And like, they, and I've talked about this with other companies that would do customer-led. And I have to say, I've done it as well. In one of my companies, we did that as well. We brought the customer on early in the sales process, and it was so like, I was like, "We'll connect you guys. You guys have a conversation. We'll get back to you." Like, yep. You don't even need to be on the call because it is like, how do you use it? Why you use it? What are you getting for value, right?

Customer-led is where I think we go because then you're speaking to a user. CFOs want to talk to CFOs. They don't want to talk to an SDR. They don't want to talk to an AE. They don't want to talk to an SE. They want to talk to another CFO who's using your product. So customer-led is where I think it goes. And then eventually, I do think it becomes mostly internal creation where you can describe what it is you are dealing with and struggling with, and then whatever tools are out there that make building internal tools easier and faster will win.

Love that. Yeah, absolutely. So I think the answer might be the same. When you look at go-to-market strategies that aren't taught enough but make a huge difference, would you say it's customer-led growth, or is there something else you would say out there?

I'd say it's one of the biggest ones, right, of like involving them way earlier, having more story, pulling them in, right? Like, everyone knows people at the end want references, so why would I wait till the end to pull in references? Like, time to close, right? Let's shrink that time. So that's definitely a big one that's not taught. But then also the other is just like the actual psychology of decision-making, right? Like, consumer psychology. This is why I was getting so fired up. I just love it. I love it, maybe y'all posted it. I don't care because I understand the things behind it. When people get fired up on discounts, right? They're like, "Don't discount." I'm like, "You're stupid, so continue on, right?" Well, no, hold the line. That has nothing to do with consumer psychology. I don't care what you think about selling psychology. Consumer psychology states discounts are needed, period. Like, so it's things like that where people don't teach how people buy, even like the buying process. They don't teach how people buy. So I wish I could cover some of that in the psychology course that people will get access to. But like, that's another thing—it's just not taught. Like, what's the psychology behind this? How do people actually make decisions? If people knew that, they'd write better emails. They'd run better demos. They'd run better discoveries. They'd be better leaders. All of it.

I love that. Okay, last question. Earlier in the show, you said you would be the CMO, the head of marketing. It's tomorrow morning. You're getting your favorite morning beverage. What's the first thing you do tomorrow morning?

What am I doing? Yeah, as a marketer, as a CMO. Oh, nothing changes. I'm sitting down. I'm saying my prayers. I'm doing my journaling. I'm doing my visualization. I'm preparing myself for who I need to be that day. Then I step into the day. Nothing. My start of the day would be the exact same.

Awesome. Love it. That's the best answer yet. Stay true to who you are, no matter what the job is. KD, man, thank you so much for joining us. This has been long overdue. It's been a pleasure. Where could people find you? Plug time.

Yeah, I mean, they can find me on LinkedIn. I am at "The Stupid Connection Request," so you know, give me a follow there. Podcast is "Live Better Sell Better," and we will link to that in the show notes. And I've got a leadership program being released in the next month or so called the Sales Leadership Accelerator, so be on the lookout for that.

Nice. Awesome. KD, thanks so much for joining us, man. Appreciate you.